CSWR Ifa Divination Workshop: An Interview with Ayodeji Ogunnaike 

January 30, 2024
Ayodeji smiling into the camera

In a six-part series from January 24 through February 28, 2024, Ayodeji Ogunnaike, Assistant Professor of Afro-Brazilian studies at the University of Virginia, will introduce the Yoruba wisdom tradition of Ifa divination in a workshop titled “Ifa Divination, Pedagogy, and the Cultivation of Wisdom in Modern Settings”. The workshop will explore Yoruba philosophical concepts and the training of Ifa devotees, with each session focusing on themes like embodied wisdom, sacred arts, narrative pedagogy, mnemonics, diversity, and poetic form. 

CSWR: So, the workshop begins by engaging the Yoruba concept of iwa pẹlẹ, which means noble character, correct? 

Ayodeji: Well, we'll actually start with an understanding of what the Yoruba religious cultural world is and is all about. We'll start from there with the idea of how Ifa divination works, what it's supposed to do, why people get involved with it, and then specifically, its pedagogy. So, how it teaches people and then more than teaches people, because that's a kind of loaded word in English in many ways. Oftentimes I say, “forms people”, because it's much more than intellectual development, or giving people access to information. Taking that difference between what people dealing with education in traditional or indigenous contexts versus more modern, Western contexts call, “education versus schooling”. We're going to deal with Ifa education specifically, and that's where we'll get into iwa pẹlẹ, or “good or noble character”, and how Ifa was really designed to help everybody be able to not just learn about it but come to embody it and live it.  

CSWR: Will you be also using that pedagogy in the classroom to inform the way that you teach Ifa? 

Ayodeji: To a certain extent. It's really going to be a workshop and not just a class. I'll introduce them to aspects of Ifa pedagogy, and then we'll actually use many of them. It won't be as much of a direct application of Ifa pedagogy, because to do that properly you need to work with a diviner and live with the diviner and do everything that that diviner does. I am not a diviner and we have just a couple of sessions, so it's going to be a bit of a mix; exposing people to what those pedagogical practices are and giving them an opportunity to engage with them. Then they can take the ideas out on their own afterwards and see what they might like to do with them. 

CSWR: That context really helps clarify how unique this workshop is, in terms of not just a Western way of disseminating information about Ifa divination, but also engaging some of that pedagogy within the workshop itself, which, like you said, is only accessible typically with a diviner. What led you to create this workshop and are there any particular influences that you're drawing upon within the Ifa tradition? 

Ayodeji: Yeah, a whole lot of them. A big part of it, as I mentioned already, is that it's embodied. It's not just purely intellectual. I want to do this workshop because I've benefited a lot from Ifa myself. I was an undergrad at the [Harvard] College, and after I graduated, I got a traveling fellowship and went to Nigeria. I served as the apprentice of a high priest of Ifa for the year, and I learned much more than I ever thought I would, in large part because I learned very differently from the ways I was used to learning. I'm drawing a lot from what Chief Ifarinwale Ogundiran taught me and the way that system of learning and training operates. I've also had a lot of great conversations with Professor Stang, the Director of the CSWR, in classes even before he became the Director, on wisdom traditions and embodying wisdom. When I talked to him about what I would do as a Center affiliate, this seemed like a natural way forward. 

Those are the conceptual reasons why the workshop is constructed the way that it is. In terms of specific material that I'll be drawing on, I really love the tradition of Ifa, because it's very holistic and every aspect of it hangs together quite well in serving the goals of refining human character as much as possible and setting the world in good order. We'll be doing everything from reading and using sacred narratives, dealing with the material culture, and learning philosophical terms and concepts. We're going to try our hand at writing different translated versions of the sacred texts that are used in divination, because they use poetry and onomatopoeia and all kinds of things to make them easier to memorize and understand and unlock the deeper meanings behind them. We're going to do a little bit of everything. A lot of it will be related primarily to the arts, but we'll think about ritual and the divination process itself. 

CSWR: It sounds like a very full spectrum of engagement, not just with an intellectual or scholarly approach, but also an embodied one. How do you expect different bodies in the workshop might influence the experience, looking at things like intercultural impact and inclusion? What expectations or hopes do you have in this regard? 

Ayodeji: One of our sessions will talk about how the orientation of Ifa–and the broader Yoruba world in general–towards issues of diversity and inclusion are radically different from the ones that we have. In many ways, they work a bit better. Underlying all of that, there's no single form you expect. For example, the oral corpus that's used in divination is constantly in flux and changing and it’s understood that there are specific messages that are applicable to basically every situation in life. It just depends on who you are. Everybody will get something different, and that's expected and part of what makes it so valuable and rich and easily adaptable to all different situations. So instead of creating one system that works for everybody, where everybody does the same thing, one thing that's accessible to everybody, you make a system that's rather flexible enough to be able to be particularized to what every individual person actually needs. Which means everybody won't do the same thing and everybody won't get the same thing out of it. That's perfectly fine. It's a different way of approaching an idea of equity or inclusion. We don't all have to speak the same language, but we all have to be able to speak or get a message that each one of us needs. 

That’s the way that I'm approaching it and why we'll be ending each session with practical group exercises. I'll provide some material and then everybody gets to make out of that what they think is most useful or relevant for their particular situation. It's designed for anybody who wants to teach, broadly defined. That doesn't have to be limited to a classroom. It could mean being a parent and trying to transmit certain values and life lessons to your children, for example. All of that will certainly depend on whatever people's lived realities happen to be, bodily and otherwise. I wish I could give you a really clear and direct answer like, “Well, this is how we're going to address issues of accessibility.” But it's tailored to each individual person, and that's how I experienced the tradition and what I really enjoyed about it. 

CSWR: Yes, it sounds highly personalized in its very design. What are some of the broader implications that you track with this way of working and as people bring these ideas back into their communities. How can this workshop lend itself to change out in the world? 

Ayodeji: The easiest answer comes from a well-known quote by a very famous Ifa practitioner Professor Wande Abimbola, “Ifa will mend our broken world.” The way the divination system itself works is that when you have a problem, something in life that is causing tension or feels chaotic or disordered, you go to one of the diviners. You don't even have to tell the diviner the issue, because if they're good enough they'll perform divination. Then they'll recall one of these sacred verses that gets prompted by the divination tools that tell them which sign and then they can find the appropriate verse. They'll recite it and then go through a process with the client of applying that sacred archetype that exists outside of time into this particular person's situation and say, “Well, this is what I think the lesson seems to be here. Let's work together to use it to set this situation back in order.” That's why it could be economic. It could be racial. It could be interpersonal. It could be an issue of global justice and politics. It could be something as simple as, “I can't find a job”, or “I'm having trouble having a child.” Ifa is supposed to use that cosmic order to rectify literally any situation in life, and that's why the babalawo or Ifa diviners deal with everything. There's no problem under the sun that they haven't worked with before. 

In theory, it depends on who the people are and what issues they're facing, and then Ifa gives people a roadmap to work with them productively. That's been my experience doing research on Ifa. I've thought many times that I'd come in and just say, “Okay, well what does Ifa say about a, b, and c?” You can certainly do that, but the pedagogical approach I was taught is that you deal with problems in life as they come up. As you deal with what you need to deal with, Ifa will give you what you need, and you'll come to a deeper understanding of all these things, and take it as it comes. That’s the way I see it. It all depends on who's there and what their needs are, or what issues they're facing themselves. 

CSWR: There's such a strong theme of creativity and improvisation in this pedagogy. In teaching creativity, no matter the pedagogical foundation, it can be incredibly difficult to teach someone without a creative background how to come out of their shell. What are some strategies that you use to help people think of themselves as creative beings capable of this kind of improvisation? 

Ayodeji: You're absolutely right that in many ways it's very creative and improvisational. And then, in some ways, it's not creative or improvisational at all. I would be inclined to think of it the same way you did, because it's true. But then, on the other hand, the beauty of Ifa is that you don't have to think initially or explicitly so creatively to say, “I'm having a problem with my best friend.” That's just something you're dealing with, and if it matters enough to you, you'll absolutely want whatever kind of good advice you can get to set that situation back in order. When I've worked with students in the past, and certainly with myself when I was learning from Ifa, it became clear that you don't have to think of yourself as a creative genius to find the motivation to put something into practice or to try something to see if it can help you with a real existential problem. With a lot of assignments, I'll give students material from Ifa and then say, “Okay, apply it. See what it does. Does it give you any insight that's useful?” The results are usually great, and students think about it outside the classroom, because–again, it's not just an intellectual exercise that's completely abstract and distanced from their everyday lives–it's deeply and intensely personal. Being human gives us all the motivation we need to be creative and work with whatever tools are offered to make the world around us better. That's the approach I take. Everybody's doing something. There's something that matters to everyone. Connect to that and the rest takes care of itself. 

CSWR: In finding the willingness to face a fear or a situation, the challenge is the first step: in opening up to a way of approaching or grappling with it. That’s fascinating. 

Ayodeji: There's a lot of talk about student-centered learning, which is great. There's a lot of data and research that supports centering pedagogy and classroom activities around students. Ifa seems even more radical in that vein, and to an even greater degree, because Ifa actually puts students and their needs at the heart of everything. I don't even really need to design it knowing what your particular needs might be as a student, or as somebody who's learning. You know all of that. All I really want to do is let you tell me how the tools I have or the information that we have can be useful for you. You're completely in the driver's seat. It tends to work a lot better, because who needs that much motivation to achieve results in areas of life that are really important to them? 

CSWR: That that kind of adaptability is incredibly attractive as a form for engaging personal challenges, but also addressing social change and social inequity. Before students enter your classroom, do you have any advice on how to approach Ifa or intentions that students can set? 

Ayodeji: Beyond a genuine openness and curiosity, I'm not sure there's all that much. My approach tends to be that I like to meet people where they are. One of the things I've learned from watching Ifa diviners is that they let people come and then they offer them what they have. They view themselves mostly as a vessel. They don't usually know the problems that people are bringing. They've just memorized this material from the tradition and then the divining instruments prompt them to offer it. They leave everything else up to everyone else. Their only hopes are that people will listen to it, be receptive, and then use it because it tends to make life all around them better. 

That’s my approach as well. I'd hope people would be open to listening. If they'd be willing to entertain me when I say that I find it to be one of the most transformative wisdom traditions I've ever heard of and certainly that I've ever experienced myself. I think it has a lot to offer everybody. I don't know if there would necessarily need to be much more than that. Simply an awareness that depending on who signs up for the workshop, there could be all different kinds of people who want to use it in all kinds of different directions, which would be a nice thing. I would enjoy seeing how other people want to do very different things. 

Story by Tristan Angieri, MDiv '26