Cormac McCarthy and the Signs of Sacrament

November 12, 2015
Professor Matthew Potts
Assistant Professor of Ministry Studies Matthew Potts. / Photo: Evgenia Eliseeva

On Monday, November 16, Matthew Potts, Assistant Professor of Ministry Studies at HDS, discussed his recent book, Cormac McCarthy and the Signs of Sacrament: Literature, Theology, and the Moral of Stories, at the Center for the Study of World Religions.

Amy Hollywood, Elizabeth H. Monrad Professor of Christian Studies at HDS, and Shelly Rambo, Associate Professor of Theology at Boston University, served as respondents.

Below, in an interview before his talk at the CSWR, Potts spoke about the origins of his book, his examinations into the differences between theological and literary writing, how McCarthy's works advocate for the immediacy of the holy, and the social justice implications of McCarthy's view of the holy.

HDS: What led you to write Cormac McCarthy and the Signs of Sacrament: Literature, Theology, and the Moral of Stories, your most recent publication?

MP: This book is a revision of my dissertation, and I came to that project somewhat unexpectedly. I entered the PhD program here interested in constructing a Christian theological account of forgiveness, but about two and a half years into the program I was becoming overwhelmed by the topic. I recall walking down Francis Ave. one morning and saying to myself, "I wish I could just write about Cormac McCarthy." He's long been one of my favorite authors. Immediately a second thought popped into my head: "Well, why can't I?" I didn’t have a good answer to that question and neither did my adviser Ron Thiemann, so I changed my focus and got to work.

HDS: In Cormac McCarthy and the Signs of Sacrament: Literature, Theology, and the Moral of Stories, you explore the sacramental theology which grounds contemporary fiction like the works of Cormac McCarthy. What impact is such fiction having on sacramental theology?

MP: Honestly, I don't know how I would measure any such impact. I do know that some of my favorite theologians—Rowan Williams, for example—are devoted fans of some of my favorite fiction writers—in this case, Marilynne Robinson. But I don't know what impact she has had upon his work. What's really more interesting for me is in asking what the difference is between theological and literary writing. One of the things I'm trying to explore in this book is what calling one sort of writing "theological" and another sort "literary" actually means, what end that distinction actually serves.

On the one hand, we have writers like Augustine of Hippo or Martin Luther or Rowan Williams (all of whom appear in my book) who use Christian traditions and terms and images in order to construct meaningful accounts of human experience; and on the other hand we have writers like Marilynne Robinson or Cormac McCarthy who are using some of the same traditions and images to do the same thing. So why are some called theologians and others not? Or more provocatively, why are some writings called Christian and others not? My book aims to ask what, if anything, is really at stake in the distinction between these different forms of writing, and whether that distinction actually serves any useful ends for the readers of these texts.

HDS: How do McCarthy's works affect Christian morality?

MP: I'm sure McCarthy would deny most traditional Christian metaphysical commitments—though in this, to be honest, he's not that different from many contemporary theologians. But one of the things I think he's up to is looking at the Christian sacramental tradition and its insistence that the holy arises in the here and now, in the mundane things of the actual, material world, in order to construct a moral worldview unbeholden to metaphysics, one that—perhaps ironically—leans upon the terms and traditions of Christian theology to make its claims.

HDS: What role might stories like those of McCarthy play in the work of Christian leaders today?

MP: If I'm reading McCarthy correctly, it would have something to do with what I've written above. Too often, I think Christian communities neglect the material demands of justice immediately in front of and around them. The reasons they do so are complex, of course, but insofar as Christian sacramentalism and Cormac McCarthy can emphasize the holiness of the immediate and immanent, these writings also might impress upon Christians and their leaders the need for attention to social justice in the here and now.

HDS: What would you like our readers to know about your book?

MP: That it will be out in paperback, at a much more reasonable price, in a year!

HDS: What is your next project?

MP: I'm trying again to write that book on forgiveness.

—by Melissa Coles, MDiv candidate